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Next generation communal mobs ready avtunnai ga


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3 hours ago, sskmaestro said:

Dera baba ki Z+ security ichina party….. daani meeda no disco….. these thugs don’t even enter that thread….. 

there is enough venom in this thread to prove few people are shameless souls…. 

Mathonmadulu mathodharakulu ane musugu vesukoni aham shivam ayam shivam anukuntu tirgutuntaru. Alanti valani pattinchukotam manaki time waste. 

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My dear semi literates and spineless fellows here is proof of violence on non believers which is taught in madarsas ... I am putting all that I have read and which is discussed manytimes in the west world .....Now get your facts right before calling anyone communal....If anyone can prove me wrong on this I will never post in this db again ..

and I am putting the source from which I read took these  It must be mentioned that the English translation from Arabic of the Quranic verses has been done by Saheeh International and has been sourced from the Islamic website quran.com

Surah 8 (Al-Anfal)

Verse 65:

O Prophet, urge the believers to battle. If there are among you twenty [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you one hundred [who are steadfast], they will overcome a thousand of those who have disbelieved because they are a people who do not understand.

Verse 69:

So consume what you have taken of war booty [as being] lawful and good, and fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Surah 9 (At-Tawbah)

Verse 5:

And when the inviolable months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakāh, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Verse 14:

Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts [i.e., desires] of a believing people.

Verse 23:

O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Verse 28:

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Ḥarām after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Verse 29

Fight against those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth [i.e., Islām] from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah1 willingly while they are humbled.

Surah 9 (At-Tawbah)

Verse 5:

And when the inviolable months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakāh, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Verse 14:

Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts [i.e., desires] of a believing people.

Verse 23:

O you who have believed, do not take your fathers or your brothers as allies if they have preferred disbelief over belief. And whoever does so among you – then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

Verse 28:

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Ḥarām after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Verse 29

Fight against those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth [i.e., Islām] from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah1 willingly while they are humbled.

Verse 37:

Indeed, the postponing [of restriction within sacred months] is an increase in disbelief by which those who have disbelieved are led [further] astray. They make it1 lawful one year and unlawful another year to correspond to the number made unlawful by Allah2 and [thus] make lawful what Allah has made unlawful. Made pleasing to them is the evil of their deeds; and Allah does not guide the disbelieving people

Verse 58

And among them are some who criticize you concerning the [distribution of] charities. If they are given from them, they approve; but if they are not given from them, at once they become angry.

Verse 111

Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah, so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’ān. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

Verse 123:

O you who have believed, fight against those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous.

 

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On 2/24/2022 at 2:17 PM, Npower said:

bro ... ade panigaa chedu kosam vedikithe... ekkadaina kanipinchedi ade... irrespective of any religion and human.... kaanee ade religion lo manchini... manushullo maanavathvaanni vedakaleni kallu chese ... cheyinche ilaanti videos pattukochi.... adi truth anesukundaamaa ???  How come this guy is neutral... so we can believe him.  

Dear Npower brother, inquiries of substance might get delayed in the midst of haze but not untended.  Do sense a tad discomfort, but the implicit acknowledgement of unpalatablity in the seed, showcases a bit of your open mind and honesty. Commend those attributes.  Regarding inconvenient facts- we all have to reconcile can't afford to overlook, all that deviates from truth should be discarded irrespective of where it resides. 


Coming to your other Q.  'How can we believe a person' ?  In all things of matter a languid person goes for the low hanging fruit of blind trust & faith, a vigorous man goes for verification.  Always do check the foot notes & the original quotes at root language, very possible & easier in modern times; in my perusal of that, reknowned  Ibn Hisham, Sir William Muir, Saifur R Mubarakali etc works are referred. Will suggest ' Independent Investigation', laborious but best tool; A diligent student and honest seeker will have less errors & regrets in pursuit of Truth.

(Last but not least, part & parcel of life for all, hope you have sorted out that little challenge; a good family man- appreciate that brother; Take care, so long.)

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53 minutes ago, Sr Fan said:

Dear Npower brother, inquiries of substance might get delayed in the midst of haze but not untended.  Do sense a tad discomfort, but the implicit acknowledgement of unpalatablity in the seed, showcases a bit of your open mind and honesty. Commend those attributes.  Regarding inconvenient facts- we all have to reconcile can't afford to overlook, all that deviates from truth should be discarded irrespective of where it resides. 


Coming to your other Q.  'How can we believe a person' ?  In all things of matter a languid person goes for the low hanging fruit of blind trust & faith, a vigorous man goes for verification.  Always do check the foot notes & the original quotes at root language, very possible & easier in modern times; in my perusal of that, reknowned  Ibn Hisham, Sir William Muir, Saifur R Mubarakali etc works are referred. Will suggest ' Independent Investigation', laborious but best tool; A diligent student and honest seeker will have less errors & regrets in pursuit of Truth.

(Last but not least, part & parcel of life for all, hope you have sorted out that little challenge; a good family man- appreciate that brother; Take care, so long.)

I understood the Video and its intention the very next second, I heard from his mouth "MUHAMMED AUR USKE CHELE"  The blind hatredness visible on his face and in his words when he delivered these words.  Ofcourse he might have come with more respectable word(like followers) when he think... he is authentic.   When the hatred is evident from the word GO ... how we can believe he is independent. 

There are so many incidents in prophet's life, where he preached & practised tolerance.  But, this guy handpicked some instances without proper historical evidences.  The supporting quotes he produced are not enough to believe his version completely, but . Yes, there can be discussion and some more research is needed to prove the facts.

But, in these troubled times... do we need to discuss... or really is there the necessity to quarrel on such handpicked incidents... which can be there in any person's life with claims from either side without having proper authenticity ? 

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Does the Quran Really Sanction Violence Against 'Unbelievers'?The exhortations to fight "idolaters" and "unbelievers" are specific in nature and are not general injunctions for the murder of all those who refuse to accept Islam as their way of life.

 

Kabir HelminskiBy 

Sufi teacher, author, activist
09/24/2010 11:20pm EDT | Updated May 25, 2011
This post was published on the now-closed HuffPost Contributor platform. Contributors control their own work and posted freely to our site. If you need to flag this entry as abusive, send us an email.
 
 
 
 
 

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Recently some prominent talk-show hosts, Sean Hannity among them, have been referring to certain verses in the Quran that appear to call for Muslims to kill non-Muslims. These verses have too often been quoted with what appears to be a willful disregard for the context in which they occur, thus inflaming the emotions of listeners, perpetuating grave misunderstandings, and contributing to the potential for violence on all sides.

Though we may not be able to influence those who are hell-bent on hatred, an explanation is owed to all reasonable people who are interested in the truth of the matter and are not looking to create enemies. The vast majority of Muslims deserve to be seen as allies in a common quest for social justice and human dignity -- assuming, of course, that we as Americans have the same goals in mind.

 

A careful and unbiased study of these and other verses, in their proper context, will reveal that the exhortations to fight "idolaters" and "unbelievers" are specific in nature and are not general injunctions for the murder of all those who refuse to accept Islam as their way of life.

Among the most often cited verses is this one: "Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, and capture them, and blockade them, and watch for them at every lookout..." (Quran 9:5).

According to Islamic belief, the Quran was "revealed" to Muhammad in a process of dialog with the Divine, and some parts of the Quran refer to specific situations, while other parts offer universal spiritual principles. To understand this passage, we must take into account the historical circumstances at the time of its revelation.

 

The "idolaters" (Arabic: mushrikeen) were those Meccan "pagans" who had declared war against Muhammad and his community. The Meccan oligarchs fought against the Prophet's message from the very beginning. When they realized that the flow of converts to Islam was increasing, they resorted to violent oppression and torture of the Prophet and his followers. The Prophet himself survived several assassination attempts, and it became so dangerous for the Muslims in Mecca that Muhammad sent some of his companions who lacked tribal protection to take asylum in the Christian kingdom of Abyssinia. After 13 years of violence, he himself was compelled to take refuge in the city of Medina, and even then the Meccans did not relent in their hostilities. Eventually, various hostile Arab tribes joined in the fight against the Muslims, culminating in the Battle of the Trench, when 10,000 soldiers from many Arab tribes gathered to wipe out the Muslim community once and for all. As we know, the Muslims survived these challenges and eventually went on to establish a vast civilization.

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At the time Verse 9:5 was revealed, Muhammad and his followers had begun to establish themselves securely. They had returned triumphantly to Mecca without violence, most Meccans themselves had become Muslims, and many of the surrounding pagan Arab tribes had also accepted Islam and sent delegations to the Prophet pledging their allegiance to him. Those that did not establish peace with the Muslims were the bitterest of enemies, and it was against these remaining hostile forces that the verse commands the Prophet to fight.

The verses that come immediately before 9:5 state, "Those with whom you have treaties are immune from attack." It further states, "Fulfill your treaties with them to the end of their term, for God loves the conscientious." Now, in its proper context, verse 9:5 can be properly understood.

This was a guidance to the Prophet at that specific time to fight those idolaters who, as 9:4 mentions, violated their treaty obligations and helped others fight against the Muslims. It is not a general command to attack all non-Muslims, and it has never signified this to the overwhelming majority of Muslims throughout history. Had it been so, then every year, after the "sacred months are past," (The "sacred months" are four months out of the year during which fighting is not allowed) history would have witnessed Muslims attacking every non-Muslim in sight. This yearly slaughter never occurred. Though the present verse is only one example, none of the Quranic verses that mention fighting justify aggression nor propose attacking anyone because of their religious beliefs. Nor were forced conversions recognized as valid under Islamic law.

The fundamental Quranic principle is that fighting is allowed only in self-defense, and it is only against those who actively fight against you. Indeed, Islam is a religion that seeks to maximize peace and reconciliation. Yet, Islam is not a pacifist religion; it does accept the premise that, from time to time and as a last resort, arms must be taken up in a just war.

 

If the enemy inclines toward peace, however, Muslims must follow suit: "But if they stop, God is most forgiving, most merciful" (2:192). Also read: "Now if they incline toward peace, then incline to it, and place your trust in God, for God is the all-hearing, the all-knowing" (8:61).

How then do we explain the early spread of Islam through military conquest? In the two decades following the death of Muhammad, Muslim armies challenged and largely overcame the world's two greatest powers, the Persian and Byzantine empires. Were these conquests truly justifiable according to the Quranic principles outlined above? It is a complex question and not one to be readily answered within the limits of a blog post such as this.

It deserves to be understood, however, that the Muslims fought imperial armies, not civilians, and were forbidden to harm non-combatants or destroy property. Islam guaranteed religious freedom for Christians, Jews, and other minority sects, even while they obliged these "protected" minorities to pay a small tax in exchange for being absolved from military service.

Now 14 centuries have passed, and it needs to be recognized that the Quran does not have an inherent, built-in agenda for aggression or domination. The vast majority of Muslims are content to live and let live. In fact, that is part of their religion. Relations with other religious communities are based on acceptance and encouragement to follow the best of your own religion:

To each community among you has been prescribed a Law and a way of life. If God had so willed He would have made you a single people, but His plan is to test you in what He has given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which you differ. (5:48)

And Muslims believe that the God of Islam is not other than the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus and that the diversity of religions is according to Divine plan: "Truly those who keep the faith, and the Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabaeans -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and performs virtuous deeds -- surely their reward is with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, neither shall they grieve." (2:62)

Perhaps these verses help to explain why in the city of Jerusalem, which has been ruled by Muslims for most of the last 13 centuries, the sacred sites of Jews and Christians have been protected, and those communities themselves have for the most part been able to live in peace together with Muslims. The assertion that Islam or the Quran inherently call for a "war on unbelievers" is sheer fallacy and fantasy. Peace be with you.

Parts of this post first appeared in The BeliefNet Guide to Islam by Kabir Helminski & Hesham Hessaboula. For a more thorough discussion, read "Is Islam a 'Religion of the Sword'?"

 
 
 
 
 

Kabir Helminski - Sufi teacher, author, activist

Kabir Helminski, Contributor

 

Sufi teacher, author, activist

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1 hour ago, Npower said:

---------------------

 

Hear you Npower brother, understood where you are coming from.
 

(I agree & recommend proper speech & chaste language is worth striving for, life becomes more pleasant and easier to sustain; having said that content takes more precedence than sound. Obviously being a believer you want to focus on portions of tolerance, and as a non-believer he must be concerned & more interested about trouble spots those pertain to welfare of all including him. As for me, old fashioned more in to reading than sound waves, have read the mentioned topic(s) from all three- Ibn Hashim, Muir & Mubarakali, not a pleasant stuff to put it mildly. So long, some other time.) 
 

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Why does the Quran say that infidels should be killed?

(Question/Answer)

The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammad(sa) began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammad(sa) and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.

Looking at the context of the verses, it becomes obvious that the commandment of this verse only relates to those tribes who continued hostilities against the Muslims even after they had migrated. In particular, reference is made to 5 tribes (‘Banu Khuza’ah, Banu Mudlij, Banu Bakr, Banu Damrah, and Banu Sulaiim) that did not honor the treaties they made with Muslims. It is also important to remember that the preceding verses give these people respite for 4 months to reconsider their behavior and cease hostilities. Sadly after 4 months passed, the enemies of Islam continued their hostilities against the Muslims. Only then was Prophet Muhammad(sa) commanded by God to meet them in battle to defend Muslims and the religion of Islam.

Even in this situation the Quran states that if the enemies repent of their behavior and promise to fulfill their treaties, it becomes incumbent on Muslims to cease military action and forgive them. Unfortunately those who take this specific verse out of context fail to see that as the title Al-Taubah suggests, the main subject matter of the chapter is forgiveness and repentance.

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An incendiary issue from beginning that has no serious value, and later conveniently get sponsored into a frivolous lawsuit, met its fate on merit or lack thereof, and ended up as damp squib in Court.

Court has spoken on the case, now, after the enthused discourses and picking sides, time to come together, and wisdom always recommends reconciling to the fact and verdict.

That terrorist person al-Zawahiri is obviously regurgitating some of the poor arguments that took place a while ago in India. 

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