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గుజరాత్‌లో మా వదిన మాటేమిటి?: ఒవైసీ.


Kiriti

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2 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

Rss is just a reflection of social bigotry built in Hinduism. I have made several posts on this topic - recently in chaganti thread. This is not my only topic though. but a topic i posted a lot about. You can read them , reflect on them, engage constuctibvely, hopefuly benefit from them.

Do bigotry exist only in Hinduism ? Just asking 

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1 hour ago, lovemystate said:

Swarandhra,

By the way nobody has fundamental right to be a wife or husband. No fundamental rights are destroyed if one abandons another. On other other hand divorce is a fundamental right and anyone can seek divorce. If husband does not want the marriage he will end it through other means.

 

how come divorce a fundamental right, when marriage itself is not????

this type of divorce violates two fundamental rights of the victim.

1) right to equality

2)right against exploitation

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Just now, swarnandhra said:

how come divorce a fundamental right, when marriage itself is not????

this type of divorce violates two fundamental rights of the victim.

1) right to equality

2)right against exploitation

It is commensense is it not ? you cant force a person to live with another person. It does not violate right to equality  because Islam grants the same right to women as well. In hanafi school where triple talaq is followed women can also divorce their husbands with triple talaq. 

What is exploitation here ? the only issue is that the woman is abandoned with no alimony or divorce settlement. Instant Triple talaq was never part of muslim personal law anway so it is illegal to begin with .

Anyway bro take a pause and think. Why is a practice already illegal and domestic being made illegal and punishable (ridiculous) by BJP fellows. Do you seriously believe they are worried about exploitation of muslim women ? they were raping and murdering them at will in gujarat. Even leaving out gujarat riots I never met BJP fellow with sympathies for muslims - men or women. 

This crazy law is being made to signal the anti-muslim intent so muslim haters votes keep coming.  

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33 minutes ago, akhil ch said:

"Mogudu Jail ki elthe" anta :rofl:

fix aypoyademo eena kondelu andaru jail lo gaduputarani

Jail aa thokka. It is like another anti-conversion bill not a single prosecution will be made. Reality is these fellows cannot and will not touch aath mukka of muslims apart from acts of violence. They never had the guts to divide J&K state, play shia-sunni divisions. But when it comes to south indian they easily push them around -- divide the state, make laws and never implement. This is what I want everyone to think about bro.

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@lovemystate brother ...

most members here are open minded and progressive.

bjp or not ... denigrating India and Indian institutions/traditions (whether you like them or not) in a forum like this isn't going to get you many friends. I understand some of your content ... but, there are better ways to present it ... be considerate to majority sensibilities ... no offense though.

BTW, I made some unremarkable posts on similar topics before ... so there it goes :)

My unsolicited suggestion ...  tone it down a bit and they'll listen and engage.

Another unsolicited suggestion :) ... its end of the year and log weekend ... sit back and grab a drink and enjoy the discussions. Take a look at Vizag Utsav pictures and vids ... they made he happy :)

 

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7 hours ago, lovemystate said:

Even leaving out gujarat riots I never met BJP fellow with sympathies for muslims - men or women. 

Ever met a muslim who approves of other faiths?

Then by definition he's not a muslim...he...he....

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The difference between hinduism and other real religions like Islam, christians, budhism is this. None of these other religions depise their own followers based on birth. They may treat others badly but not their own - they welcome them and grant them spiritual equality even if material inequality exists. Islam fixed its social issues very well. Christianity not only fixed them but ushered in modern capitalism ( I recommend Webers work on capitalism and protestant religion) which laid the foundations for scientific revolution. 

Morover Hinduism is not really a religion of anyone apart from brahmins and to some extent maybe kshatriyas. Most hindu rituals are not really meant for anyone else but just for collecting money.  A religion needs to pass two compulsory tests :

a) A proper sense of right and wrong and a divine foundation for that sense of right and wrong based on faith

b. That sense of right and wrong needs to be shared by EVERYONE.

hinduism fails on both grounds. It has confusing set of beliefs often contradicting and sense of right and wrong is based on their caste . Essentially Hinduism is not a religion but a social scam meant to profit a priestly class (who constantly change their tune depending on the "market").  For eg. bhagavad gita is not part of core vedic literature but marketed for modern times as acceptable.

Now i can use sweet words but to be honest I dont care - if we cant speak our mind even anonymously on internet forums - what guts do we have. I understand others may not agree with me immediately but if they have open mind they will eventually and read me again or may be even better me.

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26 minutes ago, AbbaiG said:

Ever met a muslim who approves of other faiths?

This is actually a phenomenal question ... 

those who profess Islam ... why is it that they don't accept anything else?

why is it your way or else?

In a 80% Hindu India ... tell me why I should tolerate  an  arbitrary rule like trible thalak (instant or not or domestic or not) ... seriously, why would you expect 80% to accept something foreign ... 

I'm willing to listen ... present in a logical way ... don't attack Indian way of living ... it is what it is ... 

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2 minutes ago, minion said:

This is actually a phenomenal question ... 

those who profess Islam ... why is it that they don't accept anything else?

why is it your way or else?

In a 80% Hindu India ... tell me why I should tolerate  an  arbitrary rule like trible thalak (instant or not or domestic or not) ... seriously, why would you expect 80% to accept something foreign ... 

I'm willing to listen ... present in a logical way ... don't attack Indian way of living ... it is what it is ... 

Bro - what do you mean they dont accept ? how many hindus went, got jobs , set up businesses and became phenomenally successful in gulf ? infact one of them called BVR Shetty is investing in Amaravati. Yes some of them maybe fanatic especially if they are poor but as far as I know most muslim countries never had an agenda to impose their values on others. They just follow theirs. You can maybe blame west for imposing regime change though wars and killings but not most muslim countries.

Now you may like triple talaq or you may not but no muslim imposes that on you - do they ? they say its their personal law and they want to live by it. They accept indian criminal law and they don't want any special mercy for muslim criminals - but how they marry, divorce they want to do it their own way. We can still dispute that based on womens rights etc but seriously for gods sake do you beleive thats what BJP folks think about?

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10 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

 None of these other religions depise their own followers based on birth. They may treat others badly but not their own - they welcome them and grant them spiritual equality even if material inequality exists. I

You're better than me  in expressing your thoughts ... please stay and moderate yourself ... 

Like I said ... many are willing to listen ... 

 

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18 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

A religion needs to pass two compulsory tests

Who designed these tests? You? 

 

20 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

They may treat others badly but not their own

And how is this a good thing? 

Or do you think Islam and Christianity are justified in treating others badly but Hindus cannot do it?

 

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18 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

Now you may like triple talaq or you may not but no muslim imposes that on you - do they ? they say its their personal law and they want to live by it. They accept indian criminal law and they don't want any special mercy for muslim criminals - but how they marry, divorce they want to do it their own way. We can still dispute that based on womens rights etc but seriously for gods sake do you beleive thats what BJP folks think about?

Now, here is the question ... if there is a tripple talaq widow ... what is the social cost ... who bears that? Indian tax payer? Including Muslims? And why should we?

 

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37 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

but as far as I know most muslim countries never had an agenda to impose their values on others. They just follow theirs. 

Are you serious brother ... what about ISIS? Or many pakistani organizations? Seriously?

Come on man, you're not going to convince anyone with that logic ... not even me ... not that I changed, it just sounds absurd ... if you know what I mean.

Be serious, please.

 

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32 minutes ago, AbbaiG said:

You mean like selling "God spoke to me through his angel" crap to benefit the vatican and saudi barbaria :D

Now you are mocking somebody beliefs. Ultimately every religion is based on belief. What is the saudi "barbaria" you mock so much ? have you seen the infrastructure they have ? have you seen their ability to administer themselves and maintain themselves ? thousands of indians will queue for saudi visa while barely anyone in saudi has any interest in visiting India. Dont give the crap oh they have oil ...if we had similar gift we will be fighting each other like cats and dogs over it. We developed Hyd for a decade and already got divided over it. Tone down your bhakth led moronic arrogance and see the world as it actually is.

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Yeah

When we criticize, its mocking

When you do, its because you want to reform Hinduism

Barbaria has excellent infrastructure to carry out public beheadings, lashings and limb choppings. Barbariawood provides excellent entertainment

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2 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

Now you are mocking somebody beliefs. Ultimately every religion is based on belief. What is the saudi "barbaria" you mock so much ? have you seen the infrastructure they have ? have you seen their ability to administer themselves and maintain themselves ? thousands of indians will queue for saudi visa while barely anyone in saudi has any interest in visiting India. Dont give the crap oh they have oil ...if we had similar gift we will be fighting each other like cats and dogs over it. We developed Hyd for a decade and already got divided over it. Tone down your bhakth led moronic arrogance and see the world as it actually is.

I know its not addressed to me ... but, now you're taking cheap shots ... 

Don't you think it has something to do with SaudiA having some (major conventional) oil reserves? 

You know its not  too far away between Americas Shale oil and Musk and Tesla ... I always thought bit of a conscience and humility would go a long way ... OPEC is gone.

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40 minutes ago, minion said:

Now, here is the question ... if there is a tripple talaq widow ... what is the social cost ... who bears that? Indian tax payer? Including Muslims? And why should we?

 

Is it really "the" question?. You asked many before I answered them all. So apart from this "the" question did I satisfactorily answer other ones ?. I just want discussion to go methodically bro instead of jumping from one question to other in the spirit of "gotcha" and changing goal posts.

OK let me answer "the"( :)) question . What do you mean social cost ? I am assuming the potential cost to society due to abandoned wife  and children(usually even in triple talaq most muslim husbands keep the children and dont abandon them though) . Now is abandoning wife and children unique to muslims ? even the hindu hriday samrat occupying PM position did it. You can see here itself that you are asking a very biased specifically anti muslim question.

But let me go forward - how much taxpayer money goes to muslims ? Now GoIh has two major spends - one is expense, other is investment. We dont have to consider investment as it goes to non-human things like bridges etc. If you take expenses - the major one is defense and a chunk of its goes to salaries of soldiers. We all know how few soldiers are muslims - so they dont get any major benefit. Next major expense is salaries of "leeches" called bureacracy (pandikokkulu in the wise words of NTR). Now here too muslims are very few - it goes to scum like IYR and that bastard who throw a spanner in polavaram works on the very last day of his work. Next major is agriculture subsidies - agains muslims dont farm much. Apart from a small sum called haj subsidy and some minority lending it is clear most muslims dont live on tax payer money and they probably get much lesser than their population share.

On the other hand look at the taxes that go from south indian states and end up in hands of UP and bihar. Now I am not saying muslims are perfect but You are trying to look with a magnifying glass at muslim faults while ignoring the elephant sized faults of BJP government.

 

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7 minutes ago, AbbaiG said:

Yeah

When we criticize, its mocking

When you do, its because you want to reform Hinduism

Barbaria has excellent infrastructure to carry out public beheadings, lashings and limb choppings. Barbariawood provides excellent entertainment

Yes you mock aimlessly out of hate while I speak sense due to love of telugu people. Thats a fact.

Stay delusional on saudi "barbaria" while they lead phenomenally rich lifes with even US presidents bending for them. Saudi may not be perfect but there is no way India can compare itself with them. Do you know saudi police simply cannot be bribed ? well if you knew you wouldnt be arguing like this.

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8 minutes ago, minion said:

I know its not addressed to me ... but, now you're taking cheap shots ... 

Don't you think it has something to do with SaudiA having some (major conventional) oil reserves? 

You know its not  too far away between Americas Shale oil and Musk and Tesla ... I always thought bit of a conscience and humility would go a long way ... OPEC is gone.

Bro so many countries have oil - Nigeria, Venezuela. How are they doing ? None of them compare to the wealth and investments Saudis were able to build. Please take away the prejudice and read about Saudi history - their modern founder Ibn Saud is a brilliant statesman who united hundreds of tribes to form modern Saudi Arabia. They wisely played US against Britain and developed their oil resources without getting greedy and dividing due to infighting. 

I dont take cheap shots - everything I say is true and are gems. 

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8 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

Is it really "the" question?. You asked many before I answered them all. So apart from this "the" question did I satisfactorily answer other ones ?. I just want discussion to go methodically bro instead of jumping from one question to other in the spirit of "gotcha" and changing goal posts.

OK let me answer "the"( :)) question . What do you mean social cost ? I am assuming the potential cost to society due to abandoned wife  and children(usually even in triple talaq most muslim husbands keep the children and dont abandon them though) . Now is abandoning wife and children unique to muslims ? even the hindu hriday samrat occupying PM position did it. You can see here itself that you are asking a very biased specifically anti muslim question.

But let me go forward - how much taxpayer money goes to muslims ? Now GoIh has two major spends - one is expense, other is investment. We dont have to consider investment as it goes to non-human things like bridges etc. If you take expenses - the major one is defense and a chunk of its goes to salaries of soldiers. We all know how few soldiers are muslims - so they dont get any major benefit. Next major expense is salaries of "leeches" called bureacracy (pandikokkulu in the wise words of NTR). Now here too muslims are very few - it goes to scum like IYR and that bastard who throw a spanner in polavaram works on the very last day of his work. Next major is agriculture subsidies - agains muslims dont farm much. Apart from a small sum called haj subsidy and some minority lending it is clear most muslims dont live on tax payer money and they probably get much lesser than their population share.

On the other hand look at the taxes that go from south indian states and end up in hands of UP and bihar. Now I am not saying muslims are perfect but You are trying to look with a magnifying glass at muslim faults while ignoring the elephant sized faults of BJP government.

 

Like I said brother ... you're a remarkable poster ... you express well ... 

Allow me to collect my thoughts ... 

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